Tom Wren
Metal Nightmare zine
www.geocities.com/metalnightmarezine

Los Angeles has been known for churning out a lot of great bands over the
years. All styles of metal have come out of there, such as SAVAGE GRACE
with their brand of power metal. SADISTIC INTENT with raw black/death.
And who could forget SLAYER, the reigning kings of thrash? Well, there
was one other... DARK ANGEL. While they never reached the same level of
success that SLAYER did, they still released several truly classic
albums, and in my opinion have just as much influence on today's scene.
Founding guitarist Jim Durkin has been laying low for the last several
years, but he's back now and wanted to talk about the old days. Just
wait'll I get him talking about his old stories from the road.

So, first things first... why did you guys do another reissue of the
first album [We Have Arrived]?

Well, actually, I've been out of the scene for quite a while. And I've
been friends with the guys in SADISTIC INTENT for a long time, and they
kept bugging me, asking if they could put it out. They've got their thing
going with their label [Dark Realm Records]. I had already put it out in
Europe, and I'm getting the fans calling, tons of email, and all that
stuff. So I thought I've got to put it out here too. The SADISTIC guys
were more in touch with the death metal scene, so they knew what to do
with it. So how could I resist?

I have the Axe Killer version. It's cool, but there's no cover art except
for the logo.

I think it's really not that horrible, but I think that maybe they just
weren't into that form of music. But the guys from SADISTIC, they knew
what to do with it. I'm getting more interviews now than I did off that
other deal.

So I'm sure you've seen the Relativity reissues of the old Combat stuff.

The ones on Century Media?

Well, there's ones on Relativity that look pretty fucked up for the
States, and then there's the good ones that Century Media did for the
rest of the world.

Yeah, they kind of brightened up the colors. I ran into one of the guys
from Century Media at the HAUNTED gig... it was THE HAUNTED and TESTAMENT
here at The Whiskey... and I'm good friends with Jensen from WITCHERY and
THE HAUNTED. He's pretty much the guy who's responsible for getting me
back in circulation within the last year. So I went to their gig, and I
ran into the guy from Century Media. And he asked me, "Did you know we're
putting out your albums?" Of course, I had no idea because I'd been out
of touch. And that's how it works out. They sent me the Darkness Descends
re-release and stuff, and I went from there. It looks really good, and
it's back in circulation. That's really all that matters.

It's funny... about a year before the reissue of Darkness Descends came
out, I actually found two used CD copies at really cheap prices. No one
could believe it.

Well that thing continues to sell. I can go into Best Buy or Tower
Records, and I'm finding it. I have yet to make a dime off the damn
thing. I wrote all the music on it, and I'm not making any money. That's
why I feel the way I do about the We Have Arrived thing. I don't have a
problem licensing it to people who know what to do with it. And the Dark
Realm guys know what to do, so I'm really proud of them. I hate to listen
to it though... I can't stand that album. We were only eighteen years
old, so what do you want?

Well, it does have that good, raw, primal sound from back in the day.

Yeah, it did. But you know how it is. If it's your own thing, you're
like, "AAH!" I've never really been one to go back and listen to my own
stuff anyway. It's just the way it is.

Yeah... so were you pissed that your albums were out of print for so many
years?

Well, I guess they showed up bootlegged, so they weren't really out of
print. I do talk to a lot of people that have them. I wasn't really
pissed off or anything. We Have Arrived was out there for quite some
time.

It's just that in recent years, people want to hear this stuff, but you
can't find it. But now you finally can.

Maybe it's just good timing. A stroke of luck.

Something I always wondered was why Gene [Hoglan, drums] started to write
most of the lyrics once he joined.

Well, you know what, I was always the guy that wrote the riffs. I'm not a
guitar god, I just write music. That's what I do. He was a very creative
guy. I knew Gene before he was ever in the band, and we were both kind of
hanging out with SLAYER at the time. He would always say that we needed
to get him drumming for us. I didn't even know he could play the drums!
Well one day, I went see his band, WARDOG, rehearse. And I was like,
"Jesus Christ! I've got to get this guy in the band!" I had to fight the
other guys in the band, they didn't really want him. I don't know why.
But when I got him in, they realized I was right. And Gene, he knew what
the sound should be like. Listen to the first one, and then listen to
Darkness Descends. We were already going in that direction, but he
reinforced my idea that we needed to be as heavy as we could be. It was
kind of a shame that it didn't continue that way, we kept losing
musicians.

Yeah, every album, somebody left.

Right. But you've got to figure that at that point in time, there weren't
too many people playing stuff this fast, at least not in LA. We found
guys who were in rock and roll bands. It was a really weird time. With my
new band, it's easier to find musicians because everyone is more hip to
what's going on.

Totally. What always amazes me is that you hear bands like DARK ANGEL, or
CELTIC FROST, and you think how easy it would be to do that now. But back
then, how did they come up with this kind of shit?

I know. Back in the day, we used to really compete with SLAYER. They were
the only other ones in LA doing that kind of music. Well, we weren't
really competing with them... how do you compete with SLAYER anyway?
They're the kings. But back then, we used to really deny that they
influenced us. But I hung out with them, how can I not be influenced? I'm
a different person now. Back then, I was a young kid. But that used to be
the big thing, when they used to compare Darkness... to Reign in Blood.
I'm honored that Darkness... was even compared to it, because Reign in
Blood is the most talked about death metal album of all time. At least in
my eyes. I don't know if you feel that way.

Well, it was one of the major things. But for me, Darkness Descends is
like the nastier, dirtier cousin. SLAYER's big, but DARK ANGEL is more
like an underground kind of thing.

Yeah, we really had to work on the vocals too. If you listen to the first
album, Don [Doty] wasn't really into that whole thing. We had to take him
and drill him. We really worked him on that album, that's why he sounds
like he's dying. And when we lost him, that was why everything had to
change. We weren't going to find another Don. He was the thing that set
us apart from everybody else. Just like with any band, if you've got Bon
Scott [AC/DC] or whoever, that's going to set you apart. So we had to
adjust and move on. But losing Don was a big problem for me personally,
as far as my songwriting went.

Did you guys ever manage to tour outside the US?

They did RIGHT after I left the band! It was the worst. They went to
Europe, and I think they were going to go to Japan. I don't know if they
made it there, but they did go to Europe. That was the worst part for me,
leaving the band, because going to Europe was something I had really
wanted to do. But maybe with this new band, I will.

Would you mind if I asked what caused you to leave DARK ANGEL?

Just financial problems. The manager we had at the time had money. We're
all trying to pay rent, and he's driving up with a new car. My singer's
sitting here, and he's kind of cracking up at what I'm saying, but it's
the truth. I got my cars repossessed and lost the place I was living,
because the money was not getting sent home. So there was obviously a
problem there.

Oh, totally. Money is always a problem. I interviewed Ben Meyer from
NASTY SAVAGE like two years ago, and he told me about playing in
Poland... which was set up by Eric Cook who managed VENOM. And they
weren't getting paid a damn thing. In fact, he had to out into the
audience and ask people for food so he could eat.

When I was out on the road, they'd give us a per diem. A little bit of
money, like ten or twenty dollars. And there was always food at the gigs,
don't get me wrong. The last tour I was on, the Leave Scars tour, was a
pretty cool tour. But when you're married, and you're the only guy in the
band that's living on your own, and paying his own bills, it's a whole
different thing. It was totally against everything I thought I would be.
I thought I would always be on the road. But then when I found out how
things are in the real world, when you're not living with mom and dad,
it's a whole different world. So, I'm calling home, and all this shit is
happening like my truck getting re-possessed, because my checks aren't
showing up, but everyone else is making money... just not the band. It
just grinded on me. I thought, "Fuck this. If I'm going to starve, I
might as well just go starve in my own home." It was the worst thing that
ever happened to me. DARK ANGEL was my band, I started it, how could I
leave it? It would be like Eddie van Halen leaving VAN HALEN. Maybe not
in that exact respect, but it was a hard thing for me to do.

At the same time, what did you think of the last DARK ANGEL album [Time
Does Not Heal]?

I thought it was very good. I wasn't really into everything about it, but
I did think it did sound good. I have nothing bad to say about it. The
only thing I regret is that I couldn't work with Terry Date, who is one
of the greatest producers. I wish I could have worked with him, because
hearing him do my songs would have been the ultimate fucking thing. I
didn't write anything on that album, I don't wish I had written anything
on that album, but I wish I had been able to work with Terry Date. That's
the only thing I regret about that.

So I'm going to make you work here for a little bit.... As far as tours
go, what's the best "war story" you have?

Oh man!! There was one time when were touring with POSSESSED. Now mind
you, the average age of the guys in POSSESSED at that time, I think was
about eighteen or nineteen. So we really had to corrupt these guys. There
was one time, I don't even know where we were... Joliet, Illnois, maybe?
Well, we went back to our hotel, and our manager at the time had picked
up on some girl and disappeared. So one night, we heard a faint knock at
the door, but we didn't know what it was, so we didn't get the door or
anything. We woke up the next morning, the guy's in subzero weather with
yack just frozen on his beard. He had puked on the stairs, and as it
rolled off the stairs, it froze overnight! So there were these yackcicles
hanging off these stairs! So the next morning, we opened the door and
thought he was dead because he was laying on the stairs had all this shit
frozen in his beard. He must have been knocking all night long, and we
just didn't hear him. But that was pretty funny. We pulled him in and put
him in the shower. We did a lot to that poor guy, actually. It was pretty
funny. One night, he passed out in the middle of the hotel room, and he
didn't have any underwear on. I guess he had a split in the middle of his
jeans. Gene got this honey, and poured it on the guy's balls... then we
all just went to bed. The guy just woke up the next day, and he didn't
say a fucking word. He just got up, washed himself off in the shower. He
must have thought he'd caught something from some girl. He didn't say
anything until we told him at the end of the tour! He said he thought he
had gotten some yeast infection or something.

[I'm laughing my ass off right about now] Oh shit! That must have been
nasty as hell!

Yeah it was! There was one night I got pissed off at the band because
they left me behind at some bar. I had to walk through the snow to this
hotel. By the time I got there, the party was over, and everyone was
going to bed. So I got pissed off, and I went to sleep. But I guess in
the middle of the night, I got up and I pissed all over the leftover
pizza. I don't know, maybe I thought it was the toilet seat or something.
I don't know what the hell I was thinking. I woke up the next day, and no
one would talk to me. They were all mad. It was breakfast, you know? They
were all mad, and I asked, "What did I do?!" They said, "You got up and
you pissed on the pizza, you asshole!!"

[I'm about dying with laughter here] It must have been really bad pizza!

It must have been! I don't even eat pizza that much! It must have been
subconscious or something. I don't even really remember. I woke up with a
blinding hangover. I didn't even drink much in those days. Three beers,
and I'd be done. Oh wait... my singer's reminding me of the dreaded urine
bomb Gene created. I don't know if you ever heard about that one.

[I catch my breath long enough to say] I don't think I have.

Oh, we were on a tour in Texas, and at the time [Jim starts cracking up
here now too] we were driving so fast to get to the gigs. Anyway, we all
had these Big Gulp cups. Gene had to take a piss, so he pissed in his Big
Gulp cup. We were driving in these panel vans, and the windows only open
so far... so he tossed it out the window, and it hit the van behind us.
Our bass player, and our guitar roadie-- who later went on to work for
Ozzy Osbourne-- they got nailed. And we could look through the back
window, and you could see the bass player, Mike Gonzales looking at the
roadie going, "You don't think that was piss, do you?" You could see his
mouth moving. We were in hundred degree weather, and this shit was drying
on their windshield. We pulled into a gas station, it was dark by this
time, and they were like, "WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT?!?" Gene told them what
it was, and they just freaked out, "Oh man, that shit came through the
window!" So after that, we started doing shit like that. We'd be on the
freeway, out in the middle of nowhere, and we'd start throwing shit out
the window like urine bombs, hitting cars and stuff. It sounds pretty
fucked up, but I guess back then we were bored.

So you were out in the middle of nowhere...

Oh man, Podunk fucking Texas! I'll tell you though, Texas was the shit. I
love that place. But pick a city, we did that kind of shit.

Now, I've also been hearing a lot of rumors about DARK ANGEL getting back
together to do a show in LA.

No, it's not going to happen. Not as far as I'm concerned. It was, at one
time. It came up about a year ago, there was an offer from the Wacken
Festival, a promoter wanted us there. And I thought that if we could get
the Darkness... lineup back together, I'd do it. If we could get Don
Doty, Robbie Yahn [bass], I'm there. But then one guy couldn't do it,
Eric [Meyer, guitar] called me back and told me that now it was not only
that but now it was two weeks worth of dates. And then two weeks became
three weeks. Robbie's in the army now, last I heard, he's in the Balkans.
Don Doty, I don't know where the hell that guy is. So we're scattered to
the winds. I called Gene and asked him what he thought-- he's in Canada.
He said that he'd come and do it, but he wouldn't set it up. I felt the
same way, and it just fell apart from there. I told Eric, and after that,
I think he tried to get guys who weren't original members. He was going
to do it no matter who was in the band. He doesn't even have any rights
to the name. I told him not to make a joke out of the name, not to fuck
with it. Just leave it alone.

That would not be right. That would be like when DEATH went on tour in
Europe without Chuck [Schuldiner].

Did they?

Yeah, that was back with the Spiritual Healing album. The other three
guys said they wanted to go to Europe, so they took some other guy to be
the singer.

Really!?! I don't even remember that. That's pretty bad. It wasn't
anything against Ron [Rinehart, vocals] or anybody else, but what had
really gotten me excited about the whole thing was getting the original
lineup back together. But when you think about it, some of these guys
hadn't even touched an instrument or sang in ten years. So how would that
sound? I was interested, but it ended up not happening, so I just lost
interest in the whole thing. It seemed to me that it was really the only
thing Eric had going on, and he was just desperate to get it going. I had
already started writing songs for my new band, so it didn't really matter
to me one way or the other. I just left it at that. If we couldn't have
Rob or Don, there wasn't any point for me.

Yeah, it's kind of like the EXODUS thing from a couple of years ago. It
was like they had to get Paul Baloff to sing, else no one would have
really cared.

Right. But again, nothing against Ron. He's an excellent singer, but the
album that put us on the map was Darkness.... Good or bad, that's how it
is. The stuff I'm doing now, it's in the same vein. It's much more brutal
than DARK ANGEL ever was, and I'd just rather do this instead of doing a
DARK ANGEL thing. I would love to play with Gene again someday though.
He's really the only guy I care about playing with again. And that's
something that will happen sometime soon. I know it will. We're both
music brothers, we both have the same ideas, and I think someday down the
line both he and I will cross paths again. But originally, it was always
him and me. We were the ones who always sat home on Friday nights and
wrote music, when everybody else was out partying. Then they'd all come
in and ask what we had for them. So it was always him and me. Someday
that will happen again. I have no ill feelings towards anybody. My
problems were my own. So when I left, it was my own thing. It had nothing
to do with anybody else.

Right.... So let's hear about this new band of yours.

DREAMS OF DAMNATION. It basically started in 1992. I did some recordings
with some friends of mine. Do you remember the band HERETIC?

Uh... I don't.....

REVEREND? Do you remember them?

That, I do. It was the METAL CHURCH thing.

The bass player from REVEREND and HERETIC, Dennis, was a friend of mine,
and I had a singer similar to the METAL CHURCH thing. We wrote a few
songs and put them out on a 7" ep... which has nothing to do with the
band that I'm doing now. But I used the name, DREAMS OF DAMNATION.
Charlie, the singer/ bass player in the band, had been with DARK ANGEL
since day one. He was at every gig. He just hung out, and did whatever to
help out. He's very brutal, he's got a good voice. He had his own band,
MALIGNANT, back in '85 or '86. We've always been friends, and we both
share a love for this music. We hate KORN and all the shit like that. So
we asked ourselves why we were just sitting around. We decided to do
something. So we started last year, and started trying out drummers, and
just basically took it from there. The only thing we have in common with
the old DREAMS... is that we're using the same name.

And you mentioned you're signed to...?

We are now signed to Necropolis. I have to give total recognition to
Jensen from WITCHERY and THE HAUNTED. He gave me a kick in the ass and
told me to get my shit together. To put the Playstation away and start
playing again. So I did. And here we are.

Yeah, Jensen's a pretty cool guy. I met him one time when he was with
SEANCE.

Yes, he is a cool guy, and I wish he lived out here. We plan on playing
together someday too. I really admire him. He's truly a songwriting
talent. If I could write songs half as good as he does, I'd be a very
happy person. He's been a very positive influence on me, just as he said
that I was for him back in the day with the old DARK ANGEL stuff. So
anyway, I hope to put out some good music and not let anybody down.

One last question, what bands are you listening to these days?

What bands? DEFLESHED, AT THE GATES. All the old stuff too, of course.
But DEFLESHED, the new Fast Forward album, is very mindripping. THE
HAUNTED and WITCHERY too, of course. As far as black metal goes, I like
DIMMU BORGIR. IN FLAMES are good. I have a wide spectrum of music that I
listen to, so I can't pinpoint anything. But the new DEFLESHED really
knocked me on my ass.

Yeah, I have it... it's maybe not the greatest, but it is up there.

No, it's nothing different, but it has the energy. It's like when you
first heard THE HAUNTED album, or Darkness Descends, it just never stops.
And of course I still like the old stuff. Anyway, I'm glad to be part of
the scene again, I've been out for a while, and it's good to be back. We
hope to really impress people with our new stuff.