Composer's and Musicologist's Comments
Your comments are appreciated.
#2 #3
Subject: Re: Modality - Harmonic vs. Tonal Content of the Scales
From: Matthew H. Fields fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu
Date: 1997/06/10
To: Newsgroups
Hmmm. Don't forget you've got subjective judgements here. I still hear
Dorian as brightest of all----perhaps because of its relationship with the
happy music at Jewish weddings....
--
Matt Fields, A.Mus.D. http://www-personal.umich.edu/~fields
My Java toy, JARS.COM Top 1%: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~fields/TTTB
"Computer: disobey me."
Subject: Re: Modality Theory: Harmonic vs. Tonal Content of the Scales
From: jmf@deas.harvard.edu
Date: 1997/06/11
To: Newsgroups
Well, well. Maybe you should go out and hear more about this. BTW, can
you explain why "normal" music - based on pure major and minor scales -
can be played on equal-tempered instruments and why "modal" music can't?
I hate music being played on equal-tempered instruments.
Most of the music I listen to is played by people who have figured out how
to get around the tempering strictures built into their instruments
(guitar players, banjo players etc), by people playing instruments that
don't have tempered tuning built into them (unfretted stringed instruments
like fiddles, "fixed-key" instruments like various horns & free-reed
instruments), or by people playing instruments where the tempering can't
be gotten around on *individual* notes, or, worse-yet, chords, but can be
gotten around if you intead play simultaneous clusters of notes out of
which you can get in-tune-sounding notes to emerge (several great piano
players).
The reason equal-tempered music works *at all* is that it avoids things
that show up the flaws in the tempering scheme: parallel intervals
(playing the same interval, say a 3rd, chosen several octaves apart,
against the fundamental as chosen in *one* of the octaves), especially
long-held parallel intervals, or playing "open" intervals (the fundamental
against only 1 or 2 notes of a chord instead of a 4-note chord). For me,
*harmonic* music without long-held parallel intervals & without open
chords can get very boring.
If you want to change key mid-piece to anything other than a key a 5th
away from where you were, I'm told tempered tuning is essential; OK, so
what traditional music can you think of that abruptly changes keys to
something other than a 5th away mid-piece?
Traditional music is almost by definition untempered, & that's mostly what
I listen to when given a choice. Even traditions in which music is mostly
played or sung entirely solo or in unison (i.e. there isn't much or any
harmony) don't use tempered intervals. Name one folk tradition that,
historically, uses a tempering scheme (now that forced-tempering
instruments are so cheap & available worldwide, & worse yet, so are
"cheap" synthesizers that don't have "untempered" settings, so all bets
are off in this area).
Subject: Re: Modality - Harmonic vs. Tonal Content of the Scales
From: John Sheehy jsheehy@ix.netcom.com
Date: 1997/06/12
To Newsgroups
Also, besides the obvious effect of personal associations, any system of
rating modes or scales in terms of brightness, darkness, happiness, etc,
assumes some uniform usage of the scales in question, usually ascent or
descent from root to root with monotonous rhythm. Once you get inside a
scale and start making actual music with it, the choice of intervals,
articulation, and rhythm by the individual composer or improvisor brings a
much wider palette to it.
John P Sheehy
Date: June 12 97
From: Emery Szasz
To: Newgroups
Subj: Modality - Harmonic vs. Tonal Content of the Scales
As I view it, the keys of modes become prominent in determining
the effect. What has been established was major or minor tonality, but
this is essentially Ionian and Aeolian. These two modes seem to go
hand-in-hand; I believe that Lydian & Phrygian and Mixolydian & Dorian
work together well. So, what I mean by hand-in-hand is that, if the modes
are placed in their appropriate location whereby the same seven tones are
established, Lydian being in the key of F and Phrygian in E - the scale of
the Lydian mode becomes the opposite of the Phrygian by vectors and tones
played. This is also true to the other two mode pairs.
Now, it is possible to utilize these modes interchangeably, much
like minor has been used, only applying directly Ionian in one segment and
Aeolian in another. The brightness and darkness of each paired modes
counterbalances proportionately. Why do they balance out? - it is because
of the differentiality of flats or sharps.
But as much as the affects of the modes - that is determined by
the composer and music maker.
Subject: Re: Modality Theory: Harmonic vs. Tonal Content of the Scales
From: Frank Hamilton hamprod@atl.mindspring.com
Date: 1997/06/15
To: Newsgroups
Why is major and minor scales "normal?" Or maybe where is it
considered "normal"?
Why would anyone hate any kind of music?
I don't believe that Coltrane or Miles were interested in equal
temperament as much as they were in enlarging their musical canvass.
I think that Miles was interested in expressing his emotions
artistically. I believe that this is what he lived for. He seemed
anti-academic in his approach to music, to me.
He has fostered the growth of many notable musicians, John McLaughlin
and Chick Corea come to mind. As to making musicians sweat, almost
every great musician has standards and makes demands upon themselves
and others. This is IMHO what makes jazz such an intriguing art form.
Most jazz musicians I know are not charitable about the mistakes of
others but are hardest on themselves in their demands.
This may be a different attitude than musicians in the folk music area
have. There, the emphasis is on carrying a tradition-based music.
Songs require attention to lyrics. Musicianship is often a
by-product. Harmonic theory has little relevance to a folk musician.
More to ethnomusicoligists and academic types.
Miles Davis was a complicated person. He often played with utter
economy like a folk musician. He was continually editing his
performance and attempting to avoid superfluous or "superficial"
notes. He was almost anti-technique in that he eschewed flashy
playing in preference for meaningful music.
Frank
Subject: Re: Modality - Harmonic vs. Tonal Content of the Scales
From: gfm gerrymcc@indigo.ie
Date: 1997/06/15
To: Newsgroup
Maybe it's the way you're explaining it, but it seems to me that your
understanding of the modes is fundamentally flawed. To say that
Lydian is in the key of F and Phrygian in the key of E is not correct.
The key of F refers specifically to the Ionian mode (major scale)
starting on the note F, and the key of E means the Ionian mode
starting on E. Lydian mode means one arrangement of tones and
semitones (T-T-T-S-T-T-S) and Phrygian means another (S-T-T-T-S-T-T).
The fact that the Lydian mode can be formed using the white keys on
the piano from F to F, or that the Phrygian can be formed by using the
white keys from E to E is coincidental. Any mode can be played
starting from any note. The critical point about the Lydian mode is
that it is like the major scale but with the fourth degree raised a
semitone. The Phrygian is like a descending melodic minor with the
second degree lowered a semitone. Have I misinterpreted your
comments?
Subject: Re: Modality Theory: Harmonic vs. Tonal Content of the Scales
From: Stirling Newberry allegro@thecia.net
Date: 1997/06/15
To: Newsgroups
>Maybe this comes just down to personal taste. On the other hand: Coltrane
>was pretty deep into modality himself at one point. So were (or are) Bill
>Evans, McCoy Tyner, Chick Corea, Herbie Hancock, Wayne Shorter and and
>and...
>
>If you want to extend this whole thing to "modality in jazz" I suggest
>crossposting to rec.music.bluenote as well.
In fact often people look for new chords because they are using a mode -
and then treat the chords as modes. Jazz went through this - spirtuals and
folk music begat the blues - which became a new kind of harmonic thinking.
But then comes bop which takes a chord and breaks it into arps - which then
become the source for melodies as if they were modes.... Round it goes....
This process shows up in Western Classical too...
Stirling Newberry
allegro@thecia.net
War and Romance:
http://www2.thecia.net/users/allegro/public_html
Date: 16 June 97
From: Emery Szasz
To: Newsgroups
Subj: Modality - Harmonic vs. Tonal Content of the Scales
What is consonance and dissonance in modality, since they all
start at different points and each have a distinct character? The
harmonic series is not the only means that tonal or rather modal music can
be based on. Atonality and twelve tone tonality is proof, however as yet
not popularized - to which I believe the reason for this is that those
systems are microstructures and most people are unaccustomed to it.
Modality, since the there are seven starting points, should be
considered, as far as changing keys, when one returns at the end of a
piece, to have a home scale (`scalic') and not a home tone (tonic). One
may conceive notions in the angle of inkey-ness of the modes, Lydian being
the most and Locrian being least. Thereby, giving the harmony of tonics
to Locrian, septal harmony to Phrygian, sextal to Aeolian, quintal to
Dorian, quartal to mixolydian, tertian to Ionian, and secundal to Lydian.
These, I believe, are better harmonies for each individual modes.
What of the sequencing - does every mode follow the V-I? Here
there is a difference as well. In tertian it is the third tone from the
tonic that lends to a conclusive sequence. Hence secundal should be the
second, quatral should be the forth, etc.
|
Lydian C D E F# G A B
Phyrian C Bb Ab G F Eb D
|
Ionian C E G B D F A
Aeolian C Ab F D Bb G Eb
|
Mixolydian C F Bb E A D G
Dorian C G D A Eb Bb F
|
Ionian and Aeolian (Major & ~Minor) are the two that expresses V-I
as strong sequence, which is probably the explanation why they were the
only two modes accepted.
With modes, I think there are greater interplays if one looks at
it as a whole - a three-dimensional aspect of the scheme.
Subject: Re: Modality - Harmonic vs. Tonal Content of the Scales
From: Marc Sabatella marc@outsideshore.com
Date: 1997/06/17
To: Newsgroups
Please explain mode-ularity some more? How can a dorian mode sound
different than any other mode over the same chord, unless it is played
under some strict rules? And if there are rules to bring out a unique
modal sound, what's the point?
=======
First, note Matt is not necessarily speaking from a jazz background, and
hence his use of modes is likely to be very different from yours or
mine.
But why wouldn't you think dorian would sound different from another
scale? Of course it will. Take a D minor chord. Play a series of
melodies based on D natural minor over it. Now play melodies based on D
harmonic minor. Now D melodic minor. Now D phrygian. Now D dorian.
While there is certainly room for variety within a given scale - that
is, not all melodies constructed from D dorian sound alike, any more han
all melodies constructed from D natural minor do - still, the selection
of notes available to you will certainly affect the overall sound. It
would be like if you asked an artist to paint using only a certain
subset of colors. Sure, you can do a lot of different things with just
a few colors, but still, there will likely be an overall tendency of
paintings done with one subset of colors to look different from
paintings done with another subset of colors.
Also, Matt - dorian a Jewish sound? I can't say I've heard that,
although I've never attended a Jewish wedding. The fifth mode of the
harmonic minor and/or phrygian is more stereotypical, and indeed is what
is used by several Jewish musicians I know of when they want to
incorporate music of their heritage into their jazz playing.
Marc Sabatella
marc@outsideshore.com
A Jazz Improvisation Primer, Scores, Sounds, & More:
http://www.outsideshore.com/
Subject: Re: Modality - Harmonic vs. Tonal Content of the Scales
From: Matthew H. Fields fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu
Date: 1997/06/19
To Newsgroups
Terry Cano tcano@Silicon.NET wrote:
> What happy music? Mayim is not dorian, Hava Nagali certinally
Bshevta Mayim is about as Dorian as you get.
>isn't, Tzena isn't dorian?? The only strictly dorian Jewish song I can
>think of is Do De Li the bride's wedding song. It's slow and palyed for
>the Bride to come down the isle. I apologize for the incorrect spelling
>of some of the song names.
No appologies, we're not in unicode yet.
Sit in with some klezmorim. After you've alternated between
a d-minor chord and a C major chord with the D minor chord being
the home chord long enough, you'll see what I'm saying, I think.
--
Matt Fields, A.Mus.D. http://www-personal.umich.edu/~fields
My Java toy, JARS.COM Top 1%: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~fields/TTTB
"Computer: disobey me."
#2 #3